Mile High Sports Magazine‘s Robin Carlin recently sat down with ESPN analyst and three time Super Bowl champion Mark Schlereth for an exclusive interview.

The former member of the Broncos opened up about the state of the offensive line now, what it would have been like if he played with Peyton Manning and his big plans beyond television.

Robin Carlin: If anyone understands an offensive line, it’s you. Right off the bat, what do you make of this Denver Broncos offensive line?

Mark Schlereth: This offensive line is young, obviously. They’re far more athletic. The problem you get into with young football players, especially young offensive linemen, is the college game does a very poor job of grooming them to become professionals. It’s a different game. And so, for the most part, there’s a huge learning curve from the standpoint of they don’t know how to strike people, they don’t know how to use their hands, they don’t understand leverage.

They just really don’t understand the game. It’s just such a different game. There’s a huge learning curve. With that said, they’re aggressive, they’re tough and they’re going to play fast and hard. There will be mistakes along the way. This day and age in the NFL is different.

There used to be a time when you’d draft a guy, and you’d develop a guy for two or three years before he got a chance to play. Now, it’s draft a guy, make him play early, and try to develop him as he’s playing. The coaching staffs that are great coaches, that really understand the development process of a young player, those to me are the coaching staffs that really do a good job and are consistently playing well toward the end of the season.

Think back to just last year with the New England Patriots. They couldn’t block anybody the first three weeks of the season. People were talking about “It’s time to trade Tom Brady and start the Jimmy Garoppolo Era, this team isn’t going anywhere.” Next thing you know, they’re 12-4 and in the playoffs and winning a Super Bowl.

That’s a coaching staff that, instead of looking at “Oh, this guy can’t do X, Y and Z,” they’re like, “Don’t tell me what he can’t do; tell me what he can do. He does A, B and C pretty well. Let’s put him in a position to have success doing A, B and C and continue developing him. And hopefully down the road – week 11 and 12 – he can do X, Y and Z.” That’s how you have to approach it. The smart staffs and really good coaches, they can do that. You think you make it to the professional level and you’re a good coach.

There are a lot of crappy coaches at the professional level. I always say that longevity breeds credibility. If you hang around long enough, and you may be a head coach’s drinking buddy, you may not be a very good coach, but you’ve hung around long enough. Eventually guys that are veteran players who know you don’t know anything about the game, they retire. And the next thing you know you have instant credibility because you’ve coached some guy to four Pro Bowls. Well, you really didn’t have anything to do with it. That guy was a great player before you got there. But now all of a sudden you have that credibility that’s essentially bestowed upon you because you were coaching him. So, there are a lot of bad coaches at every level. College, high school, Pop Warner – even in the professional ranks. The great coaching staffs are teachers and get the most out of kids and get the most out of them over the long haul.

So what do you think of this new coaching staff?

I love this coaching staff.

Obviously, I played for Gary Kubiak, so I understand he’s got this kind of avuncular sense to him. You just don’t want to let him down. He’s like your favorite uncle. You’re like, “Oh my god, if I don’t perform…” It’s more of disappointment thing. He’s got a way about him, where it’s not that he’s pissed off at you, it’s like you’ve disappointment him – like your parents. It’s way worse. Ground me, spank me, whatever when I was a kid. But it’s way worse when your parents look at you and go, “I’m really disappointed in your decision-making process.” You know, your heart melts. That’s what it was like playing for Kubiak.

Rick Dennison is a great guy, very smart guy – good football coach, played in the league for a long time. They understand that it’s going to be this hands-on approach, teaching (these guys) how to play within the context of their system. Kubiak reached out to me immediately and said, “I’d love your help. I’d love to have you around,” as he did with all of the veteran guys who are still around in this area.

The one thing you start to learn as a coach – or a smart coach – is that you can put guys in positions to win through X’s and O’s. You can also tell a guy, “This is what I want, technique-wise,” but there is nuance to everything. And the only way you develop nuances is by being out there and doing it.

The only way you get good at your craft is by having your ass whipped and going, “Okay, wow, note to self – don’t use that technique ever again, don’t take those steps ever again.” And you don’t know it until you’ve gone through it. And to be able to bring guys in that understand it and say, “Hey, take our young guys under your wing and help them out a little bit. Answer their questions.” That to me is a coach that doesn’t have it all figured out.

They’re not arrogant. So many coaching staffs are so arrogant – you can’t tell them anything. (Kubiak and his staff are) not arrogant about anything. “We’d love to have the help. We want our guys to have success and we need them to have success instantly.” Especially up front. You’re trying to protect a living legend in Peyton Manning. That’s a tall order.

I love that it’s not competitive and there’s no insecurity there. Clancy Marone is like, “Dude, I want your help. If you see something you think you can help with, tell me, yell at me.” You don’t see that very often in this profession.

There is so much arrogance and so much ego (in this profession), coaches are worried about (a former player) circumventing their authority. You just don’t see that kind of openness. That, to me, is a sign of great strength in the coaching department.

Gary Kubiak is all of these things you’re talking about, but can he also get after guys?

Yes, he can get after guys – all coaches can – but there was such a great relationship there. You hear all the time with professional players, regardless of sport, “You’re getting all this money, you don’t need to be motivated,” and I’ve always felt like that’s a real big part of a coach’s job.

This thing is such an arduous task, both physically and mentally, that a coach has to be able to motivate his guys, he’s got to try to relate to his guys. There’s got to be a relationship there, because ultimately, as a player, if you look at your coach and there is no relationship there, and you don’t respect him because of the lack of relationship, then eventually things will fall apart with that organization.

Did you see that with John Fox?

Here’s the thing – I just wasn’t very involved. So, I don’t know.

I just wasn’t given the same kind of access to the Broncos over the Josh McDaniels era and the John Fox era. I’ve been over there more this training camp than I have in the last seven years. There’s a real different feel to it.

Again, it goes to what we’re talking about – the relationship aspect with Gary Kubiak. That needs to be part of every organization. If you really want to get the best out of your players, and you want them to buy into your system and you really want them to care, there’s got to be that kind of relationship.

Now, there’s got to be a healthy mutual respect. You’ve got to be able to put the hammer down when you need to, cut guys when you need to. That’s part of playing a sport for a living. But there still has to some aspect of a relationship there.

And what do you think of Sambrailo? Or Max Garcia for that matter?

Both Ty Sambrailo and Max Garcia are young. They’ve got a lot of work to do, from just a technical standpoint. I would say Sambrailo is more “game day” ready at this point, just by a hair. It’s baptism by fire. You find out a lot about a guy – you find out a lot about yourself – when you’re put into the mix. Can you play or can you not play?

It’s so interesting to me, because I really believe you’re gifted to do certain things, and you can always get better at what you’re trying to become great at. But there’s a certain aspect of anything you do that you’re just blessed to do it. The hand of God reaches down and says, “You know what? Boom!”

For me, I was always a really good athlete. I could run and jump and throw. Literally, I was the best athlete on my high school team. When I put my hand in the dirt – probably at 12 or 13 years old – and got in a three point stance for the first time, I could just play. I could just come off the ball and do things that nobody else could do. And it wasn’t that I was coached to do it, it just made sense. In my mind it just worked.

I always say that about pass rushers. There are some guys who were just born to do it. They just naturally can do it. There’s no rhyme, no reason; we’re all blessed with different things we can do. When you find out what you’ve been blessed by the hand of God to do, that’s a beautiful thing. So, we’ll see. It could be a real wake-up call for some guys.

The Broncos took some heat for taking Sambrailo in the second round. You were taken in the 10th round. Does anyone really know when it comes to linemen?

No. Not really. You get to the next level and there are so many factors that go into. Really, it’s not so much athleticism. Can you play football? Or can you not? The other thing is, is that there is elite level athletic ability. And we can measure that, right?

We run 40s. We jump over boxes. We do verticals and broad jumps and all that baloney that we do at the combine. And, we can get an elite level measurement of athleticism. But there’s also elite level reaction time, and processing ability.

What I have found is that guys who can process information at the elite level and make a decision and then go hell-bound for life and go try to knock somebody out, those are the guys who can play at the next level. When you see guys with elite level athleticism and they get drafted high in the first round but they look like they’re playing in slow motion on the football field, those guys to me don’t have elite-level processing ability. When they see something, their body delays. So they may be able to run a really fast 40 or jump really high, but their reaction time is slow, because they don’t process at an elite level.

I’ve often thought that it would be far better for an organization (to monitor) reaction times and nerve conduction studies over 40 times. I mean, 40 times don’t mean squat.

The last time I ran a 40 was the last time I worked out for a football team in 1989 as a college senior. And I got in the NFL, started for 12 years and never ran another 40. I mean, how stupid is this test? They don’t matter.

You see it with quarterbacks. That’s another position – guys that can process information instantly and make a decision and get rid of the ball, or guys holding onto the ball and not knowing where to go with it and the whole system just falls apart. The guys that process quickly, in my mind, that’s a far better determining factor.

You know Gary Kubiak and Rick Dennison pretty well. How do you think this offense will fit with Peyton Manning, who’s been commanding a high-powered, high-scoring passing attack for three years now?

It’s certainly going to take time, because it’s a new system. He’s certainly going to have to adjust.

Peyton is one of those guys who’s so cerebral and he understands the game; he’s got such great football acumen. He’s just one of those guys who can look at a defense and say, “Oh, I’ve got the perfect one-on-one matchup over here,” and he’s always had the freedom to say, “Let me go to it.” The problem with that – and it’s great to have that – is that over the course of the game, just because you can get us into the perfect one-on-one matchup, does not mean, necessarily, that it’s the best thing over the full four quarters in a battle of attrition.

A two-yard gain that’s more physical and nasty, might have a more positive effect on (a team) in the fourth quarter than a quick slant or bubble screen. Because (you’re) going to wear a defense down. And that’s a hard adjustment to make when you see, “Man, I’ve potentially got the big play over here,” and not to check out of that.

The other thing that’s going to be very hard, is that Peyton is such a snap-count fanatic. He wants to get up on the line of scrimmage with all his histrionics – fake snap counts and “Omaha! Omaha!” and all that baloney – because he wants to see what the defense is going to show him. Because eventually the defense has got to show it. And if he can get them to show it, now (he) can get into the perfect play. So he loves that. He’s the best that’s ever been at that.

The problem is, for a guy like me, I want to put my hand in the dirt, and I want to walk up there, and I want to freakin’ shorten your neck. I want to try to kill you. So, let’s get some quick counts. Let’s get the pace of this thing up. Let’s beat some people up physically.

When you sit there at the line of scrimmage, calling everything and going through all of your machinations and all your checks, it makes (a player like) me play on (his) heels up front. And that’s not what’s best for this offense. So, there’s a real amalgamation that’s going to have to go on between Kubiak’s system and Peyton Manning and what (they) want to do.

That is the other issue that you have, so if I was playing right now, I’d turn to him and say, “Hey, bleepity-bleep, make this on first sound. I’m sick of sitting in my stance waiting for you to bark out orders. Let’s get some quick count going.” Do you have anyone on this offensive line or in that huddle that will challenge him?

That’s a great question. What do you think?

Probably not.

But you would.

Sure. He needs it. But, you know, I’m old.

Was Jeff Saturday that guy?

Saturday was totally that guy. They would get into m’fin’ shouting matches constantly, he and Peyton. You’ve got to have that guy. It’s not that Peyton is trying to take over or make your life miserable, he just has a different kind of philosophy. And sometimes you have to remind him, “What you’re doing is hurting us; it’s hurting us up front.” And (the guys up front) ultimately have to make it go. I would love to see a guy like Louis Vasquez take on that role. He needs somebody, at times, that’s on that offensive side of the ball, to get in his face about it.

Do you see Ryan Harris doing that?

No. I don’t see anybody doing it. Because it’s Peyton Manning. But I’m just telling you, you’ve got to have a guy that will step up and say, “N’uh uh, ain’t doing that.”

What’s better, to get into the playoffs as a Wild Card because it took a while – and some losses – getting up to speed in Kubiak’s system…or…going 13-3 with the offense the Broncos have had over the last few years?

Getting in is the most important part. Wild Card, Division Champs, I don’t think that matters. What matters is being a complete team. In my mind, you have to be able to dictate to a defense. My belief, when you get into the playoffs, is that you have to be balanced enough to say, “You want to throw an 8-man front on us? We’re going to run it right down your freaking throat and we don’t care.” Dallas Cowboys, they did it all year last year. They had a bunch of runs – against eight-, nine-man fronts – where the defense was saying, “You have to throw it.” And (Dallas) said, “No we don’t. We can run it.” When we won Super Bowls here, we ran against eight-man fronts. We had a plan to never check on certain things on eight-man, nine-man fronts. Because if we blocked it up correctly, and hit a seam, that’s a 65-yard touchdown run. Because there was nobody there. To have that plan, and not to always check out of it, to me, is now (the offense is dictating to the defense). And what are you going to do? Those are the things that Kubiak is trying to instill here. And that, to me, is the most important (question): Can you, come playoff time, dictate to a defense? Because if you can, now all of a sudden, you have the best of both worlds. Those are the teams that have the best chance to win Super Bowls.

Can the Broncos be that kind of team?

The running back position doesn’t scare me at all. I think C.J. Anderson can be great.

The offensive line is a real work in progress. I understand the system – I understand it better than anybody because I played in it for six years – and the system can be great. Do you have the guys up front to execute that system? That’s the work in progress. And you know what? There are going to be some times when it’s not going to look good early, through preseason, maybe the first three or four weeks of the season. But I do believe that it will eventually get good.

The thing about that system is the ability to create play-action off of that, the ability to protect your quarterback based on how much you’re going to look like a run, to me, will really help them out down the road. But, there are going to be some growing pains early.

Don’t be surprised if say, eventually, if say a young kid like Max Garcia gets replaced and have Shelley Smith go over there. Or even Ty Sambrailo. Or even Week 2, Jake Long gets signed.* That may happen. I know right now, they would like to avoid it, but those are the part of the work in progress.

You see the effort right now. You see the toughness right now. And you’re like, “Wow, we can work with this.” But if the technique doesn’t significantly improve, then it’s “alright, you know what, it may be time.” They’re going to play that game for a while.

*Editor’s Note: This interview occurred before the Broncos signed All-Pro guard Evan Mathis in preseason Week 2 to replace Garcia. Schlereth nearly nailed it.

How big were the losses of Ryan Clady and Orlando Franklin?

Ryan Clady hurts. Ryan Clady is a good football player. He’s not a dominant, run-blocking kind of guy. But he’s always been a very good football player. Just from a pass protection standpoint, there’s still a lot of work to do at that left tackle position. So that part hurts. And he’d be good in this system because of his ability to move and run.

Orlando Franklin, in my mind, can’t play in this system. He just doesn’t have the lateral quickness and agility. He’s a big body, a big physical guy. But I think he’s a very average player. In a phone booth, that guy will maul you, but the game is not played in a phone booth. He gets edged a lot. He gets in trouble a lot from an athleticism standpoint, because he’s a leaner. He just wants to come off the ball full steam ahead forward. And if you stand there and let him hit you, you’re in trouble. But, that’s not how they play the game on the other side of the ball either. So, (Franklin) in this system isn’t a big loss.

Back in January of 1998, you and two of your fellow Broncos linemen were fined $5,000 each for having Vaseline on your arms during a cold game in Kansas City. A lot of people brought that up during the whole “Deflategate” talk. Is it a pertinent interjection into the conversation? Was that the same? Different?

Deflategate is Tom Brady going 72 in a 65 and getting pulled over and spending a year in jail.

The problem that you get into in this league is there has been a culture of cheating, or circumventing the rules, since the day this league was conceived. And the NFL has really done nothing about it. At best, they’ve slapped people on the wrist.

I think this really goes back to Spygate. This is really kind of a “lifetime achievement” award for the Patriots. They’re sick of the organizational arrogance and the quote-unquote cheating or circumventing the rules. But that’s just kind of the world we’re living in.

The NFL is just taking such a rash of garbage – because of decisions they’ve made and Ray Rice and Greg Hardy and all these other things – for the first time that I can remember, they’re getting beat up in the court of public opinion.

Think of it from this standpoint: The head of the Competition Committee, Rich McKay, who’s the president and CEO of the Atlanta Falcons – they’re pumping crowd noise into their stadium. He’s the head of the Competition Committee. Far more of an advantage, far more egregious, in my mind, than having a couple of balls slightly deflated. Far worse of a quote-unquote crime. He got suspended – not taken off permanently – from the Competition Committee. The organization, I believe, got a $350,000 fine. I think they lost a fifth round draft choice. They swept it under the rug and we moved on. That, to me, is so much worse.

Having been on the offensive side of the ball and having played in crowd noise, being in New Orleans coming out of the end zone and you can hear the speakers blaring, it’s so hard. And it’s so unfair. That’s way worse than have a couple of underinflated balls. In the second half they were inflated properly and they still killed them. It’s just not a big deal in my mind. The Vaseline thing? I mean, shoot, you know, I had Vaseline on my arms in every game I ever played. I had stick ‘em all over my gloves. You name it, anything to help you as a player, and nobody really cared. That’s gamesmanship, things we all do to give us the best chance to have success. I don’t think any of them are really that big of a deal.

You’ve had an incredible broadcasting career, but here’s the question: Are you a better broadcaster or better football player?

That’s a hard one. Probably a better football (player). You think about all the things I had to overcome to play the game from an injury standpoint. But they’ve both been great. The one thing for me that you have a sense of pride in, is that I’ve worked exceptionally hard at both. I’m just a grinder. I ground out a living playing football and I’m doing the same thing in broadcasting. Broadcasting comes with a lot less injuries though, I can tell you that. I give a slight edge to the football.

Should you be in the Hall of Fame?

No.

Three rings, part of a line that sprung an MVP and a 2,000-yard rusher – you should be. Definitely.

If I’d never been hurt and could have strung together six or seven Pro Bowls as opposed to two, because I was always injured, I missed games here and there, then we’d revisit that. I was excited last year that I made the final 50 or final 3; I was ecstatic about that. I was like, “Ooo. Just to be mentioned.”

I have such reverence for the game, and such reverence for those guys who played the game. I still get giddy. I hosted this corporate event in North Carolina at Pinehurst, and they brought in a bunch of the Hall of Fame Steelers. Sitting after the event with those guys, I just couldn’t believe I was at the same table with those guys – Mel Blount, Jack Ham, Mike Wagner.

I just don’t look at myself as like, “I deserve that,” or that would be something that would even cross my mind. Like I said, I have such reverence for the guys that played at that level. I don’t look at myself that way.

Speaking of that 2,000 yard rusher, what about him? Shouldn’t T.D. get in?

Yeah, probably. You know, I’ve gone back and forth on (T.D. getting in the Hall); I’ve vacillated. He certainly deserves that honor, but there’s so much to be said for longevity. That’s the one strike against T.D. He did all that in four years – an incredible four years. You can make a compelling argument for or against, I guess, based on the longevity aspect of it.

But is there too much emphasis on longevity?

Probably. But I understand why they do it. There are those guys who were a flash in the pan or two-year wonders, and you’ve got to – you just can’t – it’s a career achievement aspect, being great over a long period of time. I’d love to see T.D. get in. I think he deserves to get in. You would extrapolate the numbers and just say, “Oh my god, it would have just been awesome.” With that said, it just wasn’t meant to be. But still, I think he ended up playing seven or eight years. He had a 1,700-yard season, I think a 1,400-yard season, a 2,000-yard season. It was a pretty incredible run when you think about it.

What’s next for you? Don’t you get tired? You’re everywhere during football season?

I’m a worker. So, I’m always working on “What’s the next level?”

My green chili company is thriving and growing. That’s been a labor of love and a passion, and it’s been a lot harder than I ever anticipated it being. It’s two steps forward, one step back all the time. It’s just a different world. But it’s been fun and I’ve enjoyed the challenge.

I’m one of the most competitive people you’ll ever meet. I love kind of proving the naysayers wrong, who all told us, “There’s no way you guys will ever survive in this (chili) business,” and “Don’t even try it.” I love seeing those people and basically giving them the “How you like me now?” So, that’s been really cool.

In the last six years or so, I’ve sold eight television shows to different networks. I have yet to get one on air. I sell the heck out of them. I make pilots, but I can’t quite get it on air. I hope that that’s going to happen. I have a couple more projects that I’m working on right now. That challenge has been fun, too.

I’m trying to cut my days back at ESPN, so I’m really only working there during football season. So, I’m trying to create more opportunity for the corporate level public speaking. I love that stuff. I always think I’m in the company of one, there may be others – multiple Super Bowls, multiple Pro Bowls, 15-year broadcasting career, multiple Emmy Award-winning shows, and then have my own business that’s a multi-million dollar business and growing. I always kind of look at that going, “Here are four or five things that I’ve just adhered to throughout my career, regardless of what my career was at the time, that have helped me achieve success. And here are the principles I’m going to share with you.”

I’m a people person, so I love the entertainment aspect of being in front of a crowd and getting to share. There’s always something on the horizon. I’ve always got my hands in several different cookie jars. So, it’s just figuring out what’s next.

Boy has the offensive lineman changed today.

Yes. Absolutely.